TK and CS Navy Issue Continued from the NYFL Forums, since they locked it

I will be putting up some of the screen shots from the match, and the chat from Sunday November the 14th of 2010 here in this area so that people can see what had gone on, there are 135 + screen shots from the match, to the chat from that day, be patient there are alot of screenies, and I want to make sure they are all in order.

So what is final result of match?

DQ or rematch? I heard both.

They can DQ us and go to hell for simple mistake that was caught early. Rules mention 'warnings' - which is what mod did during battle, but DQ is only for grievous and deliberate and repeat offenses - at least according to published rules.

I see no grounds for rematch other than fact that CS has political clout and can't bear to think that they lost.

We restarted and battled fair and square. The DID lose.

Do we have any of these decisions in writing?

Accually no filly, we had 3 to 4 verdicts that day of the match, during and after it, they rush to quick solutions on the matter at hand, and the fall back on only one rule that gives all other rules no say so, or no meaning, that rule is #27, the thing we now for sure is that we did get a warning.

Well all I can say is that there is alot of loop hols in the NYFL Rules, and just waiting to hear about the next unwritten rule that will come out of the FL, after talking to doc on vent, I forund out that all Fleets that are in our division will get a win over us, its classic, everyone knows that we won CS Navy Fair and square, on our warning / restart / rematch, the QQ Fleet won again, and I m so glad that we did not go in alliance with them like they were asking us to, basically to keep a squad out of each fleet to jump in and out of both fleets to help out one another for FL, FW and HA's.

Bottom line is #27 of the rules is a out so the FL Hosts can save face, we will post up the tread of screen shots here from their forums, and also as soon as I can, figure out how to put the recordings from Vent onto our forums they will be there for everyone to hear, how Doc was searching for words, and how to say what he wanted to say without contradicting himself, but to hear those recordings you will have to be a registered user on our forums,

Summary:

Fleet League Week 1

CS Navy vs Templar Knights.

First match was stopped by Nate. He stated that a restart would take place and that TK would receive a warning due to the violation. Nate had followed there orders from Docryan.

Restart took place about 5+ minutes after our first match had been stopped.

Second match took place with the same ships etc etc.... We won by an overwhelming majority of 2X times the tactical. We had more capitol ships than CS Navy.

Nate left the room to get the readings on the tactical to signal the end of the match at 25 min... Other referees did not inform us of a stop so the match continued and CS Navy completely lost.

After the match was finished and result was clear SIdewinder was called into a room with Docryan approximately 30 min later.

Notice the time line now. First match was stopped and there was a break between the start of the second match and end of the first match.

Approximately 5-8 minutes was the gap between the match and then 25 minutes for the official second match to finish. The match continued on for about another 3-5 minutes after that. So all in all about 30-40 ish minutes had gone by since the ending of the first match.

In the room Sidewinder was told that TK would forfeit the match. Docryan made this call with no proof/evidence at all. He made the decision right from the get-go.

We obviously try to find out why in the world that occurred. Docryan had a discussion with Nasrat and Side and came to that conclusion. I do not know the exact specifics but Docryan left the room. Nate soon joined the room but refused to help TK and explain the situation.

So from my POV there are a couple mistakes already made. Docryan makes a judgment call on giving a team a loss with evidence or proof. He does not attempt to get the whole picture and makes a decision on his own prerogative. Second major thing I notice is Nate is one of the referees directly linked to this match and he refuses to help explain the situation stating that "he needs to go". I personally track him with the /mod function and see him on for another approximately 20-30 min.

Later on Docryan receives a screenshot from CS Navy. We continue to try to contact FL officials to protest the unjust ruling. Docryan comes onto vent the tries to explain the situation to Side.

After much deliberation and a day later, Docryan decides that TK and CS Navy would have a rematch.

Obviously, we were upset by this decision. First match was ruled void and a restart match was done. Restart match had a clear victor with no problems at all.

The explanation I finally receive on Wednesday night ( 3 days after the match ). Docryan states there was a mis-communication in the orders he gave to Nate.

Docryan says that Nate mis-interpreted his decision and went forth with his decisions.

So once again another problem is here. Did Nate make a decision that he had no power to make? In the vent conversation, Docryan says that Nate had the authority to proceed as it did. Okay, so Nate had the power to order the restart even though it was not Docryan's intentions.

Who is at fault here? Docryan gave an order that either Nate misinterpreted or Nate misinterpreted the orders because Docryan was not clear with his orders.

Either way one of the two made a mistake. Next observation is.... Why did Nate not double check if this was the right action to take? This is a situation that is new and not under the rules. As Rule # 27 states, the final ruling is made by the FL Commissioner. Why did Nate not take steps to make sure this was the right call?

In the vent conversation Docryan specifically states that neither of them had made a mistake. It was a merely mis-communication and that was all. I confronted him that if Nate didn't have the power it was Nate's mistake. Docryan answers by saying Nate had the power to make such a call. So if Nate had the power to make the call and Nate made it why was the decision overturned?

So it really goes back to the question did Nate have the power to do such a thing. The real answer here is NO. Nate did not have the authority to stop the match and proceed with a restart. Docryan is trying to cover up the mess up by hiding behind his "oh so clever Rule # 27 ".

Since Nate did not have the power to do this action he should have stated that his decision was not the right one and that he is sorry about the mistake. However, Nate does not apologize and Docryan refuses to apologize for the mistake his subordinate makes. He refuses to admit that there was a mistake made. He even goes further to state that this is a mere difference in opinion.

So all that aside lets take another approach on this topic.

We ( TK ) argued the point of Nate making the decision of the restart. Docryan says the restart was not valid and should not have been done. Okay. We questioned where in the rules did it state a violation of a specific rule will end up in a forfeit. He has no answer for it except to quote Rule # 27.

We then question why there were other fleets that broke the same rule but yet they were not penalized either. Docryan's response once again is Rule # 27 and his decision is that since the fleets involved both broke the rules it cancels each other out.

We question the fact that rules are rules. Rules should apply to every fleet, every player and every member equally. Not applying to one fleet more than the other or applying less to one fleet or another... He states that this is a matter of a difference in opinion.

How is this a difference in opinion? Rules are simple.... They apply to everyone and no one is above them. However, TNF agenda apparently never follows the rules when it doesn't suit them. So Docryan's final say is that rules were properly followed and that this is a difference in opinion of the rules being carried out.

So once again another mistake is obvious to see. Rules were not properly followed equally to all fleets. Docryan bends the rules to his own personal agenda and when the rules do not fit his agenda he uses the loophole of Rule # 27 to state that he can.

Okay so now we argued the points of Nate's mistake and not the proper following of rules and procedures.

Next one is that we argued the point of CS Navy's late response. CS Navy had ample time to question the validity of the stopping of the match and the restart. Restart was called and the game continued for approximately another 2-3 minutes. Then one minute for retreating is needed to finally end it. So already 3-4 minutes to tell the referee that they object. No such objection is made. There is a minor break from the end of the first match to the beginning of the second match about 5-8 minutes worth.

So 10+ minutes has gone by and not a response or objection to the match being restarted. The restart starts and ends with the official ruling of the 25 minute rule. TK wins by a big margin with 2X times the tactical of CS Navy's. The match still continues since the referees did not say to stop. So another 3-5 minutes goes by and finally the match is over with a complete TK win. So already 40 minutes or so has gone by since the decision of the rematch.

After the match CS Navy then protests the issue of the T4 fighters. They send a screenshot and claim that the match was not valid. Docryan agrees and TK is ruled to have forfeited the match.

How can a team argue that the first match is invalid after a restart has started, played and has already finished? They are arguing the point because they lost the match. They had 40 minutes to object to the match but in that time they did not object. That right there is not fair to the TK. It does not take 40 minutes to tell the referee that they do not agree with the restart.

So there are three major points where TK tells Docryan where he has made a mistake and is showing unfair treatment to TK. Docryan stands his ground and says that there is nothing else to talk on the matter. His reaction is full of stops and pauses trying to avoid using the words mistake, fault and another other idea that would lead to the end conclusion of his mistakes or his subordinates. He leaves saying we can find him on the TNF vent channel.

Coming onto our vent channel was not some crazy reach for him to do. He did not do anything by coming onto our channel. He ignores the huge amount of facts that show the mistakes that were made and states that there is a difference in opinion. He can think to himself that he did what he could but I call major BS on that. He didn't do crap.... He is trying to save his own ass and Fleet League. He is a rookie mod eager to prove his worth.

The worth he showed to TK and to me is that he aint worth jack ****. He speaks of doing new things, implementing new ideas etc etc... but all in all hes like a politician. They speak of great promises and great things to come but when actions need to be taken all he takes are those that benefit him and when certain things make him look bad because of a bad decision he tries to cover it up.

My biggest problem is that Docryan is trying to act like he did nothing wrong. He is trying to cover up his mistakes and failures and tries to bury this behind. He ignores all the facts and only sees his point of view. When confronted on the issue he no longer wants to deal with it because he claims he is a volunteer and he isn't a paid professional.

Yeah this is a call out on Docryan... I have no damn respect for you... You sit around on your ass trying to make yourself look better all the time with big talk. In reality, all your big words have no actions to support it. I respected you out of respect for mugsybugsy but it was a huge mistake on my part to have done so.

Docryan you have made a HUGE error and Nate has made a few errors too. The fact that the both of you keep trying to hide your mistakes and try to put the blame on us only further portrays how pathetic you guys are and your lack of morals.

I am glad to withdraw TK from Fleet League because it would be a grave error on my part to let my fleet members put in all this time, effort, and energy into an effort where it is only undermined by pathetic people like you. You can hide on your forums and block me from your committee. All your doing is further proving my point. You only accept those that have ideas that match with yours. WHen you get confronted with an idea that is against yours you immediately are against it and refuse to see the other side. You merely give the impression of trying to bridge the gap but in reality all your doing is trying to look good for the "cameras" and not really doing shit about it.

You can have your pathetic fleet league and let this power go to your head.

Fleet League was always a difficult event to participate in due to many unexpected problems but at least NFCS tried to make things work. NFCS was a tool but he wasn't as messed up as you. He was never quite the bright one but at least he never tried to trick/deceive or undermine others.

I am greatly disappointed in the new direction of this fleet league under your guidance and fail to see how it will prosper. Do not even bother trying to come onto our vent or speak with us unless you are ready to apologize for your mistakes and admit you were at fault.

I do not plan on participating in any of the events hosted by you or led by you. This monumental failure on your part was given me great doubts to trust your judgments. I can see that the only person you look out for is yourself and that equality is something that you do not believe in. I do not speak for all my fleet mates but I trust you as much as I trust a drug dealer. I trust you to lie to me and that is about it.

TNF has continued to show great failures in electing ridiculous people to their positions. In my eyes you have fallen below Iyoung and MM. Below iyoung with power hungry, immoral, selfish thoughts and actions and below MM in incompetence and failure to see the truth and right way.

Hope you enjoy your time as a Mod because the first opportunity I see with hard evidence of you abusing your spot, I will bring you down as hard and as fast as I can. People like you make the game Navyfield a much worse place. People like you are the reason why Navyfield is dying and the community unwilling to understand SDE.

I'll add in some immature words to finish it off by saying. FUCK YOU. You can do me and yourself a favor by punching yourself in the face and looking in the mirror to see what kind of miserable failure you are.

Here is the responce of docryan to filimon on ther forums, not able to quote it, but I havecopied and pasted it here:
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	Re: Need Explanation « Reply #11 Today at 10:59am »
Filimon, when I came on Vent to explain everything yesterday, Sidewinder informed me that a few other people in the channel were not High Counsel and he proceeded to move us to another channel. If I remember correctly, you were one of those few. Again, I have spoken with Sidewinder on multiple account and all the questions you are asking, I have explained to Sidewinder. If you don't feel those were 'legitamate' answers, so be it, I'm sorry you feel that way. Going around explaining to each member of TK why conclusion came down to what it was, would take an enormous amount of time. If Sidewinder does not wish to explain it to the rest of you, that is his decision. Thank you.
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as we all know when docryan was in here, he did not have any straight forward answer for his decision, it was a searching for words type of a talk, first saying that nate made a mistake, and then trying to cover it up, by trying to keep docryan out of it all together and nate by saving face, he knows he is wrong, he knows that and it will come to bite him in the butt later on in his time being a so called mod, and the so called head of the FL with rules that have so many loop holes, and All I can say is, I told him so.

And to answer your statement about devildog8 earlier speed why he likes to hound our fleet, is because we are striving, and surviving, and his own people ......................., well we know that answer to that due to them coming in here and vent and telling us what they think of him..

like i said earlier how can people respect the MODS if they cant thier words, but anyhoo we all know who won and who lost !

Here is a link to my photo bucket of all of the screen shots, for some reason NF does not keep the SS in order, and neither does Photo bucket for some reason, FYI when I take screen shots, the chat always over laps, so that you can see the chat from previous, but here is the link anyways:

https://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii75/uFSideWinder/CS%20Navy%20Vs%20Templar%20Knight%20November%20fourthenth/

Please be patient with me working on screen shots as we speak

NOTE: On this Thread, Any Unregistered users comments will be deleted.


Starting of the battle room 1^stMatch, some screen shots might be out of order

#1


#2


#3


#4


#1



Nate Stating Ship Check


#1


#2



#3



#5


#6


#7


#8


#9


#9


#10


#11


#12


#13


More Tade area stuff from thefleet



Trade area talk from our fleet



Restart (loadingof the restarted match 2nd match)

#1


#2


#3



Nasrat to foxburn joining theroom




SS before the Lulu crash one



Lulu crashin before start of therestart



Nate Checking Ships before theRestart




Before the Restarted Match




Restart right before (Restartright before (restart right before nates stated no crashes and game is live #1)



Restart right before (restartright before nates stated no crashes and game is live #1)



restart right before nates statedno crashes and game is live #1



restart right before nates statedno crashes and game is live #2



nate call out that game is liveno crashes #3 (restart right before nates stated no crashes and game is live 1& 2)




Restarts Called by nate Time leftin match

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#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


#7


#8


#9


#10


#11


#12


#13


#14


#15


#16

Whispering to nate SS’s at end ofrestarted match
#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6



Templar Knights Clan Area

#1


#2


#3


#4



Screen Shots from Match to FleetRoom to coping Chat:

#1 Towards the end of the restarted match, Screen shots fromthe match it self


#2 Towards the end of the restarted match, Screen shots from the match it self



#3 Towards the end of therestarted match and the final from the match.



#4 Time limit Tactical ScreenShot that gave us the WIN on the Restart / Rematch Room.



#5 Fleet room in area 14



#6 Fleet room in area 14




#7 Fleet room in area 14



clan room stuff after the rematch/ restart


#1


#2


#3


#4



#5


#6



#8 Went to Caras trade room tostart coping all of the chat from the beginning of the first match, and to therestart of the second match, so when you look at all of the other screen shots,they were taken for a trade room hosted by Caras, a fellow fleet member and afellow HC Fleet Leader


Docryan13 asking me to his room,these go right after the clan room after Screen shots

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#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


#7


#8


#9


#10

docryans room nasrat givingscreen shot info



Docryans room nasrat giving SSlink, ending chat of rules on forfeiting



Docryans room rules aboutforfeiting and nate re reading them



"MULTIPLE" of (docryansroom nasrat about t4 fighters and docryan and his email)



Docryans room before the sendingof SS to doc from nasrat



Docryans room nasrat just sendingdoc the SS's


Docryans room docs email thefirst time, and then asking nasrat to write out the link to the SS's



Docryans room doc talking aboutnasrat to write out the link to his SS's



Docryans room nate about docryanwill stick to it, ending chat of Nate UNDERSDTANDING ME



Docryans room nate chat IUNDERSTAND U and ending chat ofof me saying o yeah



Docryans room me asking why bendthe rules, and speed talking about the 1st match was called for a restart



Doc ryans room Nate going to readthe rules, and doc asking if ppl where there before his final desesion



Docryans room the SS before DocsFinal desesion



"MULTIPLE" of docsfinal sescesion


Docryans room nate chatting about docrestarting his room, end chat ne argueing about the resart and warning wasgiven



Docryans Room Nasrat saying yes ,ending chat of nate stating doc restarting his room in their vent



Doc ryans room, chat nate"that is what happened, ending chat me talking about us wining on shipssunk and tactical



docryans room me taling aboutships sunk and tactical, nate asking me is I want to push the issue me sayingyes I do, and ending chat with nate saying well sidwinder listen to this



Docryans room me sayingnow it isa warning per the rules, ending me saying dont bend the rules



docryans room, me saying dontbend any rules, ending chat with doc stating his rule #27



docryans room doc saying his rule#27, ending chatdoc saying thank you all


Docryans room doc saying thankyou all, and room opening for new players



Docryans room, Room opened fornew players, ending chat me saying warning was given



"Multiple"Talk withnate at the end when docryans room opened




Docs ryans room, me saying yup,(Speed joined the room)me saying it is funny that this comes after we win


"Multiple when speed enteredthe room



Docryans room, me saying end ofstory and me saying it is BS after nate states doc has ruled



"Multiple" from docryans room about doc has a desesion to make and he made it



Docryans room speed saying thenwhy is it non sence, ending chat of me saying they were not ingauging anyfighters at all

ENDING PART OF DOC’s ROOM NEEDS TOGO TOWARDS THE END OF THE SCREEN SHOTS
#-05 DocRyans room Doc asking nasrat about anyissuse, and nasrat talking about t4 fighters




#-04 DocRyans room Doc asking nasrat about anyissuse, and nasrat talking about t4 fighters




#-03 docryans room nasrat about t4 fighters and docryan and his email







#-02 docryans room him asking for screen shot tobe sent to his email, and the start of nate talking about the restart






#-01 Docryans room nate talking about the restart




#00 Docryans room Nates chat to restart to havefun, ending in docs chat about cs navy will win






#1 Docryans room chat of CS Navywill win, ending in start of whispering to nate



#2 Docryans room doc chat aboutwith nasrats permission you may , ending chat of whisper to nate about thewarning that was given



#3 Docryans Room Nate whisperingabout ref taking SS and nate cannot rule without the SS in whisper mode




#4 Docryans rooms Nate whispering about Restartand nasrat stating he took SS






"Multiple" speed sayingit is non sence in doc ryans room



docryans room me saying if theyare t4's, ending chat me asking if any ref has any screen shots



"Multiple" of Crizzahaving SS screen shots



Docryans room speed saying 1stmatch was ruled a re start, and end chat with nate saying yes they did



"Multiple" speed saying1st match was a restart, and nate saying he has to go



Docryans room nate sayingtheydid, ending chat nate saying crizza gotthe SS



"Multiple" of crizzagot SS



# 128 Docryans room nate sayingcrizza has SS ending chat of speed saying ROFL




"Multiple" nate sayingcrizza got SS and speed saying ROFL



#129 docryans room speed sayingrofl and us going to caras's room for coping the chat records



"Multiple" of speedsaying ROFL and for us to pull out of the FL



caras's room before coing thechat records for the SS for the forums